How Pinterest Trends Tells You Exactly What Lead Magnets to Create with Kayla Watkins

Allea Grummert (00:12)

Hey there, welcome to Happy Subscribers, a podcast that explores how bloggers and content creators can create more purposeful relationships with your audience through email marketing. I’m Allea Grummert email marketing strategist, copywriter, email platform expert, and founder of the done for you email marketing agency, Duett I started as a personal finance blogger in 2016 and have since helped hundreds of bloggers and creators like you maximize your email marketing for more impact, more traffic, and a better connection with your subscribers. Be prepared for some advanced email talk as well as tactical tips to help get your valuable content into the hands of your audience faster and easier. I’m excited you’re here, so let’s do it! We can create a deeper, more meaningful connection with the community you love and serve through email.

I am here to introduce you to Kayla Watkins, your Pinterest fairy godmother and veteran user of Pinterest. Over eight years, she’s a strategist and agency owner. She and her team help bloggers grow their revenue and communities by repurposing their content on Pinterest. And we were just talking before the call, we were introduced through a previous coach of mine who I have not been like, I haven’t worked with her in like four years. So it’s like a name from the past. So thank you Audrey Joy Kwon for introducing me to Kayla.

Kayla I’m glad you’re here.

Kayla Watkins (01:30)
Thank you for having me, Allea And I know it’s so funny that she introduced us. I hadn’t followed you forever, actually. And like, I knew you and I knew your content. And then she was like, I know Allea. And I’m like, that would be great. Yes, please, intro. So that worked out really well for me.

Allea Grummert (01:43)
my gosh, I love it. Well, and Audrey runs like a, is it a group program for agency?

Kayla Watkins (01:47)
Yeah,

Agency Together. Yep, it’s a group program, so that’s been fun too.

Allea Grummert (01:52)
Man, we could have a whole podcast episode just talking about running agencies. Let me tell you, I love that part of my business. But today we’re going to talk about email and Pinterest, mostly Pinterest with a little bit of email because people get traffic to their website from all sorts of places and they can grow their list from Google traffic or Instagram DMs and all of this. But I’m really curious about the use of Pinterest. Like you said, we want to grow their revenue. We want to grow their site traffic by repurposing content they already have and publishing it on Pinterest. And I haven’t done Pinterest for my own business. I used to do it for my personal finance blog. A girl that was in 2016. That was Tailwind days. it was, was, well Tailwind might still be around, but was it the Butterfly? What was the Butterfly? ⁓

Kayla Watkins (02:40)
I don’t know.

Board booster! I haven’t heard that one in forever. I heard those days too, so I feel ya.

Allea Grummert (02:47)
episode.

So guys, just be glad that Kayla is the one essentially teaching all of us today and not me. But yeah, really interested to dive in and talk about email list growth or at least site traffic from Pinterest. ⁓ So yeah, Kayla, well, first of all, is there anything about you I haven’t shared?

Kayla Watkins (03:08)
⁓ well, any like fun facts? I’m a mom of five. I guess we can talk about that. yes. I had my fifth baby in November. We were talking about that before the call and yeah, and all of them were born within five years. So my oldest just turned six. So yeah, that’s kind of like a fun fact that it’s just the side of running my business. I don’t really know how both are happening. They are.

Allea Grummert (03:30)
I feel like you should have a ray of sunlight hitting you at all times. Like what an absolute saint.

Kayla Watkins (03:36)
Yeah, I think just need concealer and caffeine is pretty much like the key. But yeah.

Allea Grummert (03:41)
Oh my goodness, I love that. A whole brood. A whole collection. I love it. Okay, so let’s talk about Pinterest. Tell me how do you see it being most effective for bloggers in general?

Kayla Watkins (03:57)
So I guess it, you know, as like every platform, it has changed so much. And I, like we talked about, I started back in the board booster days too. ⁓ I’ve been doing this since 2018. So I’ve seen all sorts of iterations of Pinterest and, ⁓ it was much easier in the beginning, I would say to get traffic, but that doesn’t mean that it’s still not such a powerful platform today. And I think that is something that I’ve always liked to start with because I think people go on the platform and they get annoyed with the way the platform looks with the ads, with the AI. Unfortunately, that’s like a reality of most platforms and things that we’re dealing with. But what I still find today is that it’s still a powerful traffic driver and especially in like the lifestyle niche. That’s where people are searching for ideas and they’re still using it like a search engine, like they would use Google, putting in something they want information about and that’s where people who create valuable information can show up. So I still love it as a traffic driver and I love it as a pairing to Google and to sort of you know when a Google has like one of their wonky updates you still know you have Pinterest and when Pinterest does something weird on the algorithm you still have Google. So I kind of equate those together for bloggers and feel like they’re just like a powerful pair to sort of not put all your eggs in either search engine basket and that’s how I look at it.

Allea Grummert (05:13)
Yes. Amen to that. am curious, right before we hopped on the call, y’all, I should always just start recording pre-call. There’s so many good nuggets, but I want to revisit this idea because I was asking Kayla, do you ever work with people who really just focus on Instagram? Like food influencers, fashion influencers who don’t have a website? And how did you answer me, Kayla? Part two.

Kayla Watkins (05:35)
I do sometimes and I have, okay, but I am always fighting the battle for bloggers. And the reason I kind of keep the word bloggers in my, know, Pinterest for bloggers in my handle, in my newsletter is because when you come from Pinterest, you’re often cold, right? So you do not, you’re not looking for a specific creator, specific personality. You’re looking for information. You’re looking for that dairy-free mac and cheese recipe. You’re looking for ways to style barrel jeans, right? You’re looking for something that you want.

And you don’t care who provides it to you as long as you get good value and the right information that you want. So you’re looking for information and you come across a creator, you get value from that creator on the blog, and then you go through with the conversions, either hop on their email list, you know, sales from affiliate links, buy a product, etc. So the blog is that like warm up piece that nurture piece that sort of like actual conversion. I don’t know what the word would be, but like that’s what you need for conversions is to warm them up. And then

So I find that that is so important. And then of course, I always advocate not just have them on your blog and bounce, collect them on your blog post via like ⁓ an opt-in or through your newsletter or through a lead magnet to get onto your newsletter so then you can continue to nurture them, continue to send them back to your blog. So that, I really look at the whole funnel of ⁓ blogs and how Pinterest is just at the very top of it. And I like to warm them up to be community members, actual loyal fans that come back you know, again and again.

Allea Grummert (07:03)
Yes. And so then we’re not just hoping that, I mean, like, are people really following entire people on Pinterest anymore? Like follow all of this person’s posts?

Kayla Watkins (07:13)
E-followers is not even a metric I really pay that much attention to. It’s really not important, which is a great thing because you don’t have have a ton of followers to get a ton of traffic or to get a ton of targeted people to your website. ⁓ It’s not as important. It’s just not a metric that matters because people are just either scrolling or searching. So they’re either going on their home feed and Pinterest is serving up content that they think that they’re going to like based on previous engagements or they’re directly searching what they want and Pinterest is showing you the best posts for those searches.

Allea Grummert (07:40)
Yeah. So that being said, it’s not like they’re going to follow you on Pinterest and see a ton of your content there because of just how Pinterest is built to kind of give a plethora of options. So going back to what you’re saying, capturing them onto your email list means you actually get to keep that audience where you are. Same with you’re working so hard on SEO, on that side of your business, and you’re working really hard with Pinterest, and you’ve created all this wonderful blog content to attract people to your site.

We want to capture them and keep them coming back. I love it. It’s just like it becomes this like really good kind of, don’t know, what’s the word for it? It’s a wheel. It’s moving. And like come to the site, join the email list and then stay involved. And I love what you said, like join the community, be part of the conversation, become a loyal fan. And we can’t really do that if they just like hit the site and bounce.

Kayla Watkins (08:33)
No, you can’t or like the other way influencers use Pinterest which again I think is possible if you don’t have a blog I just always advocate for you to work towards getting a blog ⁓ but so sometimes people influencers will use Pinterest to send directly to like Affiliate platform so they’re going right to LTK right to shop my so yes You can do that and yes, it can breed sales, but again You’re missing that warm-up piece of why should I buy from me? Why should I trust that what your recommendations are are going to work for me?

Because you’re just seeing a picture or a product collage, it’s not as cozy warm feeling and you’re not willing to buy from those people as quickly.

Allea Grummert (09:07)
Yeah. And then even if they do buy from you, have no idea of knowing who they are. And so you’re not getting repeat business, if you will. Right. You’re not getting repeat visits to other shopmys or LTK pages or your blog. You always have to be looking for new traffic. That’s like a numbers game. That’s exhausting.

Kayla Watkins (09:23)
Right.

Exactly. It’s a volume game instead of just like cranking out the quality content that you’re already doing, repurposing onto Pinterest, getting them back into your world, sending them back into your world. So you get to like kind of keep them all in this. Yeah, life cycles. We all I don’t know what the right word is either. but you get to keep them in the loop for for future content, for future, you know, recommendations for future options for everything. So it’s the best way to really keep people connected long term. And it’s a sustainable way of growing your business, not a like a constant like cranking out new content, is what we’re all burnt out on.

Allea Grummert (10:00)
That was like, you don’t use the phrase burnout, I’m going to. Yeah, that’s perfect. Well, and I have, you know, I work with dozens of clients a year and they’re always curious about list growth. And I have strategies to give them for Instagram and for like placing different ⁓ forms on their site or whether or not to use pop-ups and giving them some lead magnet ideas. But what is, is there a direct tie? Like, can I Pinterest to a landing page and will that work?

Or what other strategies do you consider as far as like actually driving traffic to email?

Kayla Watkins (10:35)
Sure, so I think there’s kind of two options there. think one is direct to landing page for sure. Of course, making sure that’s either like a UTM code or a new landing page for Pinterest so can track it. ⁓ And then I also think there is pinning directly to blog posts where all those strategies that you just talked about where they should put the form where the pop-up should be, you have the opportunity to convert them that way. So I think those are the two different ways. But what I think is interesting about Pinterest is more like on the graphic creation, keyword creation, like keyword finding on how you’re going to find these people that would want your offset or your lead magnet, I’m sorry, who would want your lead magnet. That’s really where there’s like a lot of little nuggets on Pinterest that you might have not like dived dove into or really like, yeah, you might not have dove into yet.

Allea Grummert (11:22)
What are those nuggets? Or is that that’s why people pay you Kayla? I mean I used to like DIY all this stuff and I get so much to learn and it’s always evolving and like I don’t need to become an expert in Pinterest so like thank you for the work that you do. Yeah like what are those what are those nuggets that maybe people aren’t aware of that make Pinterest perform better?

Kayla Watkins (11:45)
Okay, sure. So I think again, because Pinterest is a search engine, think I keep saying that because I feel like so many people still are like, Pinterest is social media. It’s really not like I’m not talking or socializing with anyone on the platform. I am going there for what I want to get out of it. And then I am searching for it and then I am getting it. And then that’s how, you know, the platform works. Right. So because it’s a search engine, you have the same sort of opportunities you have on Google, which is you can see what people are searching. You can even see what people will be searching based on the data that they have.

which is their Pinterest Trends tool, which I feel like is something, again, underutilized by a lot of people. But so that’s on trends.pinterest.com and you can literally see by niche, okay, what are the upcoming trends that they’re predicting? So they have this little like, my gosh, what is it called? crystal ball, they have a little crystal ball emoji. And so you can see on some of those search terms that they think this will be trending based on in previous years. Let’s say in March, they had a big peak in.

it’s gonna be summer. like is what they’re gonna have a peak in or early fall even because Pinterest searchers are planners. They are on their way earlier than everybody else. So you can see, okay, in March there was a peak in like how to wear cargo shorts, we’ll just say, or how to style like your tankini, I don’t know, whatever. So they’re searching for summer outfits or summer travel in March. So you can go in and see exactly what people are searching when the peak is gonna be year over year.

and really start creating content and sharing content with both the keywords that people are searching for and when they’re searching for it, which is such a valuable tool and asset to content creation in general for your blog and your business, and to sharing that back on Pinterest to know it will perform well.

Allea Grummert (13:24)
Yeah. Okay. So I completely forgot about the timeliness of Pinterest. I’m over here thinking it works like SEO. Like it’s there, don’t touch it. Like, you know, the blog post piece. But as you look at those trends, it’s saying create this content now if you don’t have it, or if you do have it, this is the time to be posting it.

Kayla Watkins (13:45)
Exactly. So I look at it as, okay, so if I’m seeing a peak coming up, I’m seeing it start to rise. Like let’s say summer travel starting to rise and end of February, early March. That’s when I want to start posting that either posting, want to start repurposing old content, right? Because you have content from previous summers. You’re going to start sharing that old content now because you already have it. It’s easy to just create a fresh graphic, share it on Pinterest again. And then I’m going to start thinking about, okay, what are the pieces here? What are the soon to be trending keywords or search terms?

that I can start creating new content on and I’m going to start creating that new content then and then start sharing it again. And even if that new content doesn’t like peak when it will this year, of course, Pinterest lives forever. It’ll peak next year earlier when you repurpose it in, you know, end of February, early March. So you have the opportunity to both like repurpose content in the right time when people are actually searching it, give Pinterest time to rank and share your content. And then also figure out what to post about because you know, people will be searching for it you know when they’ll be searching for it.

It’s such a great content creation tool. I love coming up with blog-list ideas based on Pinterest trends.

Allea Grummert (14:50)
Yeah, well, like blog post ideas and then tell me about like, like potential lead magnets. Like, do you know what the people want?

Kayla Watkins (14:58)
Exactly. That’s exactly what I was getting into. Okay, so like I love using Pinterest Trends again to do lead magnets. So coming up with, okay, what are we seeing that’s increasing this month in searches? It’ll tell you right there, like month over month, it’s increasing by 200%. Year over year, it’s increasing by this percent. What haven’t I covered here? Or you can also go to another like sort of pro tip is I like to look at people’s analytics and see what are the topics of content that Pinterest already sees them as an expert at. So their top pins.

What does Pinterest see them as an expert at? What are they tagging? You can actually look at an incognito window and see what Pinterest is categorizing that content as. And then you can create additional lead magnets about that because Pinterest will go, this person already had good content about X topic. Now they’re creating more content about that. They’ll let it rank faster because it already has the good engagement signals to say that you write good content about, like, let’s say, like,

baking recipes. if you write an in-depth roundup or like an in-depth post about something else about baking, Pinter says, I already know you’re an expert. People already love your content about baking. That will rank faster and give you like a better opportunity to create like a lead magnet around that and then dive deeper into that. Is that my extension of the strategy? Okay. Yes. ⁓

Allea Grummert (16:12)
my gosh, I love using data to just like help us create more of what’s already working. So like we do that with our duet debut clients. We do audience research and it’s one of my favorite things is like, what’s Sally doing that you already love? Right. Just like, just tell me, just tell me. And then oftentimes it’s like, ⁓ I don’t, why don’t I ever lead magnet around that or resource around that or an email around that? That could be a whole campaign. That could be a product. Like we love data on these parts.

Kayla Watkins (16:40)
And the data too can help you create a lead magnet. If, okay, so if you’re saying these are my top pins for outbound posts, what is the commonality between them? Or what are you seeing Pinterest drives the most traffic to? What blog posts are you seeing? And then how can you create a lead magnet that then works on Pinterest by using the search terms on Pinterest ⁓ and seeing what people are looking for in that same topic and then add that as a lead magnet. So now you have the blog post is already doing well on Pinterest and a lead magnet that will do well on Pinterest because people are already searching for it.

So it kind of just ties that in to make it really seamless and easy.

Allea Grummert (17:13)
Yeah. And then you make sure that that blog post is available or that lead magnet opt-in is available on the blog posts that are doing well. Exactly. As well. Love it. ⁓ How long has it been since you’ve heard about heard the phrase content upgrade?

Kayla Watkins (17:21)
Exactly.

It’s been a minute, yeah.

Allea Grummert (17:31)
I had a client recently ask us to create a lead magnet. Okay, so this is where it’s all semantics or whatever, but to create and opt in an actual freebie based on the most popular blog content. So instead of a lead magnet, which I’m putting in quotation marks, which is meant to be traditionally, in the last three years, traditionally a lead magnet is like, can be published all over your site or all over social media.

And it’s kind of like a blanket opt-in that would work for attracting your audience. But in this case, it’s like you can also create an opt-in that is specific to these high traffic pages that are going to convert them even more. So like an example back when I was starting, was like, here are 12 ways you can start a business without a website. And then the opt-in is download the checklist here. So it’s like directly tied to the content. What are some?

Do have any ideas of how that might apply to like a recipe blogger or a fashion blogger?

Kayla Watkins (18:29)
100 % like if you’re if you’re okay, so if you come from Pinterest one of your top posts right for recipe blogger is Crockpot like a Crockpot recipe, right? Let’s say it’s like chili So it’s like a Crockpot chili recipe and you see that’s your top post Well, the perfect like often lead magnet there would be like, you know a series of recipes or like some sort of tips to how to like a series of Crockpot recipes or a series of like quick dinners Whatever is that or different chilies like whatever is a direct tie?

to that post. I love that for an opt-in. If you’re already getting all that traffic, know, the problem people are having is they’re getting there and they’re like, what do I do with this? Like they’re just going to the one blog post. Okay, we’ll collect them, invite them in further, show them more value. And that’s exactly, obviously, as we all know, what an email list can do. And so creating that perfect opt-in is a great way to do that. long as that, as long as that ties into your entire like website as a whole. So if you’re a recipe blogger, obviously that fits in and you’re not going to niche.

then that’s going to be the perfect way to just get them into your world and then show them, okay, I don’t just have Crab Pot recipes, I also have simple dinner ideas or one pan recipes. So you can kind of invite them in further, again, just giving them more more value and showing them more and more reasons why they should stay a part of your community and keep coming back.

Allea Grummert (19:44)
it because the alternative would be some sort of generic opt-in, right? That’s just like dinner inspiration, right? Which could convert fine, but when it’s on the topic or hitting the pain points of why people are there, yeah. I had a client, I love seeing, she did a whole crockpot series for the summer, which I never would have thought of. As a midwesterner, I’m like, crockpot, winter, soup. But I was like, my gosh, if you tell me how to use the crockpot in summer,

Because what she’s telling me, it didn’t take that much to like for it to click is like you plug in this one thing and it’s done. You don’t have to heat up your whole house. And I was like, I’m sorry. Why have we been neglecting the crock pots in summer? So it’s like, yeah, like six ways to use your crock pot in summer. There you go. Or did you know that this is part of our crock pot in summer series? And you put it on those six different blog posts or whatever that link to this opt in. And all it’s doing is collecting.

the resources you already have and sending it out in an email series or a PDF.

Kayla Watkins (20:43)
Right. 100%. Yep. That’s been like huge for me. And I think like often when I look at my clients analytics and Pinterest, and it’s hard for me to be on like this, like, well, we kind of talked about this too, like in the beginning before we press record, but like, it’s hard for me to kind of just be on the Pinterest analytics side. Cause when I’m like, okay, but now you’re getting all this traffic and now we see like what Pinterest knows you as an expert on. We got to dive into it. Once Pinterest knows you’re an expert, we want to share more content, whether repurposing or creating more content about that topic.

because then you get to just rank faster and quicker and Pinterest is like, okay, this is who needs to see this content. They’ve already showing it to the right people and you can just kind of build off the momentum. That’s the whole game of Pinterest is building off momentum that you already have on the platform for sure. And I think that’s a underutilized piece too. They just throw new links up and then call it a day. But no, we want to build off of what Pinterest knows you’re an expert on and keep going.

Allea Grummert (21:36)
Like

back in the board booster days, you’re just like, just ship it, ship it again, send it again. And so we’ve kind of treated it like the set it and forget it type tool. you’re saying that is not the best way to use it.

Kayla Watkins (21:49)
It is not. it’s while new links perform well and you always want to share your new content, what you’re really getting the most data from and the most ability to like build off of is your content that you’re repurposing or that you’ve already seen do well. Because Pinterest, like a search engine, takes time. So maybe the second you post your pin, it’s not going to blow up typically. ⁓ So you need to wait for that data to come in to see, here’s what Pinterest is liking. Here’s the kind of graphics they’re looking here, like the styles of content they’re liking.

whether it’s you know brown upper individual recipe art and art what’s working on pinterest let’s do more of that because we already have these people’s and this this cold audience is ready but looking at actively searching for this content let’s provide that for them and then get them you know into our world for that day

Allea Grummert (22:32)
I love it. And at the same time, my brain is like, Kayla, how do you keep all of this organized? Do you it right now? These are kind of the content pillars, this is where I’m an expert, and these are the pieces of content that support that.

Kayla Watkins (22:45)
Are you talking about like from a blogger perspective, like how do I keep the pins? Like what do you mean?

Allea Grummert (22:51)
Like, you know, you have all this information. I’m just over here, like, I would lose track. Part of it is because Pinterest is not like a list. I love a good list. But seeing the pins, I’d be like, what do I have? What do I have that’s supporting what it’s telling me?

Kayla Watkins (23:05)
Okay, sure. I, so there’s a couple ways, I think this is what you’re asking. Let me see if I’m answering it right. So like there’s a couple ways I try to stay like organized for the blogger. Like, so we have like one, there’s like an internal database where I’m marking like, okay, what’s seasonal? Cause I feel like that’s a big piece about Pinterest is getting out seasonal content in the timely matter. Like we were talking about when it’s rising, not when it’s already peaked. So there’s one like a seasonal sort of like internal database of collecting like all your blog posts so that you can share.

you summer blog post in early spring instead of like waiting till it’s already peaked. So that’s one way we stay organized. As far as like top content, well we’re tracking the analytics and we’re talking, okay, what are the pins that get the top clicks? What are the blog posts that get the most traffic? It’s more like collecting that and on a quarterly basis, that and saying, what is the commonality here? Whether it’s in the phrasing and the keywords and the graphic style and the content topics.

and how can we do more of that? just like kind of look at it quarterly and say, okay, here’s what was working. And then also, okay, cause I like to nerd out. And then I look at it again, last year too, and I’m always looking, okay, what performed well in Q1 of 2025, so that in Q1 of 2026, we can repurpose that or build off of that too. Cause it’s so seasonal and it’s not going to be like a, you know, always an uphill for every blog post, it depends on the season. So is that make sense? that answer your question?

Allea Grummert (24:27)
I was just like, just tell me you haven’t written down. How in the world do you remember? ⁓ And that’s one of the recommendations I’ve given folks who want to repurpose their emails because it can be really seasonal, especially if you’re a baking or a food blogger or lifestyle ⁓ blogger. sometimes it’s just like, these are the emails I wrote last November and just linking to where they were in Kit or in Flodesk.

Kayla Watkins (24:33)
veggies.

Allea Grummert (24:51)
So they’re just easy to reference the next time. Like sometimes I feel like we make things so hard because they were like, great, now I have to go back a bajillion pages to last November when in reality you could just like save that link in a Google.

Kayla Watkins (25:03)
Right, right and like for and for Pinterest because you can send out that same link over and over and over all you have to do is create a fresh pin so that’s a new graphic or a graphic with edited text or a new photo on the graphic like you just have to play with like the tiniest little tweaks so that’s why we keep it all because even the pin title and pin description you can just iterate off of that do a couple tweaks with the keywords and send it out again so it’s not like starting from scratch which is why I love Pinterest everything’s repurposing including the pins that you already have you’re just repurposing that repackaging it

and sending it out again. So that’s for sure a great way is just making sure you’re tracking it so that you can just easily do that again and send it out in the right timing.

Allea Grummert (25:40)
I love it. One more question. Do you recommend ads? ⁓

Kayla Watkins (25:50)
No, I don’t recommend ads. It’s just like not for some reason my forte I have like stuck so hard corned organic what I’ve seen at who I see ads work for for the most part is Product sellers. Okay, so I know that that is really the way to go But I also have product I’ve had products our clients that have gone on ads and it seems like and again This is just like hearsay from like me being in and it and my peers in it

where it’s like when you’re running ads, everything’s going well. When you stop ads, organic is gone. And so I get frustrated with the fluctuation of ads because unless you’re spending the constant money, I have seen that organic drops off when you drop off, which is really frustrating for the person that runs the organic side. It’s to see the dip when I know it’s just like they just want you to spend more money, is my view. So I do mostly organic and I think for content creators, really you could stick to

Organic I said I think you could up to add when you have a product that you’re like really trying to ⁓ You know sell and you want to have like a heavy push But organic is going to tell you what content to promote on the ad side So either way you want a high performing organic profile So, know what pins actually work to boost or to not even boost but to create ads for if you don’t know what Pinterest knows you’re because again You can build off the lens of what Pinterest knows you’re an expert at so if you see they know you’re an expert of of this topic or this pin

that’s the one to turn into an ad. So I think organic being the base and then ad just being a little added bonus and momentum when needed for sales makes the most sense for creators.

Allea Grummert (27:23)
make sense, making sure that you’re testing out a funnel before you go put ads behind it, no matter what that ad platform would be. OK, so as we wrap up, I’m curious, is there anything we didn’t talk about with Pinterest that you feel like would be really important for our listeners to know or change about what they’re doing? Anything at all?

Kayla Watkins (27:42)
I think just remembering, I think some of the common sort of like things that I see people do wrong on Pinterest is again, like this is like every time I say this, like take a shot, but Pinterest is a search engine. So people are just using the captions and pin titles and pin descriptions wrong. They’re treating pin descriptions like captions, like they’re talking to someone. You are talking to the search engine. You’re just doing a general description about what that content is, including the keywords, including

the things that are actually mentioned in that blog post in your description. You do not need to be conversational. You do not need to talk to the pinner. They don’t care. You’re talking to the search engine. So just remember that when you’re just like describing your content, like this is a blog post about five easy crockpot recipes, including like how to make chili that like, you’re just that’s all you’re doing. It’s very boring. It’s not exciting, but it doesn’t matter because you’re just talking to the algorithm to say this is what this content is. Here’s if anybody’s searching for this, you want this pin to show up. It’s like that’s it.

So making sure you’re being so direct, you know, you can use, you can use AI to help you with this. You don’t really need it, but you can definitely use AI to help you with this. And then as long as you’re doing the search, the research in the actual search bar. So as long as you’re looking at Pinterest and say, what are people searching about Chile, getting those keywords, and then you can go back to AI and say, Hey, can you create a short description with blah, blah with these keywords. I think that is the best way to use AI. If you’re going to use AI for pin title and pin descriptions, which you totally can.

But anyways, that’s a whole different tangent. But I just think speaking to the search engine versus speaking to the pinner is very important for how you’re doing that. And then ⁓ I also think Pinterest, and I’m not sure how this goes for SEO people, I always mention it and they always cringe, Pinterest loves a roundup. Like Pinterest loves a roundup. So even creating those roundup posts that you can, even if they’re not gonna do well on Google, that you can share back on Pinterest, especially in the food blogging world, it is like,

you know, what really carries it for a lot of my food blogger clients is seasonally they’ll have like, like Mother’s Day recipes are coming up, right? So they’ll have a blog post on Mother’s Day cakes for my baking client, let’s say, and that’s going to kill it every year. And that’s going to just bring up the, like bring up the traffic and do so well for her. And again, she’s just going to collect them on the side of her blog when they’re coming for the Mother’s Day recipes for the other kind of recipes she shared. And that’s how she’ll keep them coming back for more. But those roundups work. So sorry, SEO people.

Allea Grummert (30:04)
Okay, I like this and I have a ⁓ question because if they didn’t want to create a recipe roundup on the blog could the lead magnet opt-in be the roundup like does Pinterest know that you’re linking to a landing page and not a website?

Kayla Watkins (30:21)
yes and no. Like they know when it’s not your website, like when you have the light dot, ⁓ flow desk or whatever it is. Yes, because you have claimed your website so they’ll know if it’s like a little different, but it doesn’t matter. They’re still like, they’re still sending people to all the websites, either it’s not your claim to one, your claim one probably gets a little bit more love and it’s easier to track in the Pinterest side of things, but still totally something you can do and totally something you can test out or even having that included in like an individual.

Recipe having a roundup included as you know as your opt-in as your as your late are you really magnet? totally fine, and then also like you can also send people to like Like the menus like so if you have like a roundup in your menu So if you have like chicken recipes and that is like a actual section of your menu in a page That is you know food blog comm slash slash chicken recipes You can link to there and create roundup pins that go to that

And then that is another way that you can kind of have the roundup sort of appeal on Pinterest without having to post on your website.

Allea Grummert (31:25)
Yeah, linking to a category page like that. had hide behind that. so in that way, if you do have a lead magnet, and the lead magnet can be, get my five Mother’s Day recipes sent to your inbox. Click here. ⁓ And you can even tell them what the five recipes are. Right. Because it’s like, what are they going to do? Go to your website and look up each of them individually. They might click out of it if they’re like, lady, I don’t want to give you my email address. Fine. But also for the people that it’s the right fit for, they’re like, yes, please.

Kayla Watkins (31:45)
No.

Allea Grummert (31:54)
Please make this easy for me, send it my way.

Kayla Watkins (31:56)
Yeah, what you’re advertising is five recipes, what they’re getting is five recipes, so it totally makes sense.

Allea Grummert (32:01)
We’re not here to deceive people. We’ve never been those people. don’t know if anything that we’ve said has been construed as such, but it’s not. We just want to be really intentional about where we’re sending that traffic and how we’re planning it. love it. Kayla, thank you so much for your time and for being here. I know that this one was on delay, guys, because she had another baby. ⁓ We were talking about this like more than six months ago. And so I’m so glad Kayla was able to be here and that baby boy is great and growing.

and enjoying, I’m sure, a wonderful spring day with his siblings. But before we wrap up, Kayla, how can people connect with you, learn more about your work, or if you have any resources you want to share?

Kayla Watkins (32:40)
Sure, you can go to KaylaWatkins.com or follow me at Pinterest for bloggers. Again, I’m keeping the bloggers in my name because I love a blog. So I’m still going to champion them forever. But Pinterest for bloggers on Instagram and TikTok. yeah, I have lots of content on my blog. because I believe in blogs. KaylaWatkins.com blog. You can read lots of free posts about ⁓ everything you need to know Pinterest.

Allea Grummert (32:58)
Yeah I love it. Y’all reach out to Kayla if you need support. In the meantime, of course, go check out her blog and the free content she’s already poured her heart into to create and publish for you. Thank you so much, Kayla. I appreciate your time.

Kayla Watkins (33:17)
Thank you for having me.

Allea Grummert (33:23)
Thanks so much for listening to happy subscribers and our conversation about email marketing today. I hope you feel inspired to take action, even if it’s a small change, so you can more confidently share your valuable message with your community through email. Special thanks goes to my team who makes it possible to produce and share these episodes with you. Seriously, thank you guys. If you want to hear more email marketing tips, strategies, and success stories to help you develop deeper, more meaningful relationships with your email subscribers, be sure to subscribe to happy subscribers so you don’t miss an episode. If you have a few seconds, I invite you to share this episode link with a friend or post it on social media so your peers and community can benefit from it as well. And if you have a few minutes, I’d appreciate if you’d leave a written review of the podcast since that helps more people hear about it and I believe we need more creators sending more valuable emails to their audience with more confidence. If you want to reach out to me directly, the best way to do that is to join my email list through one of my top freebies listed in the show notes. You’ll get regular emails from me that are packed with value and if you hit reply to any of those emails, it’ll land in my inbox and I can’t wait to chat with you there. Until next time, let’s Duett.